Ep. 2: Learning to Suffer, Learning to Grow

Welcome back to The Serving the Future Show, recorded at the Barnes Tennis Center, home of Youth Tennis San Diego.

In Episode 2, hosts Ryan Redondo and Steve Adamson dive into one of the most important and often misunderstood aspects of athletic development: mindset. Drawing from their own experiences as junior players, collegiate athletes, coaches, and mentors, they explore how resilience, discipline, adversity, and environment shape both athletes and people.

Ryan shares stories from his journey as a nationally ranked junior and international competitor, while Steve reflects on the challenges of leaving Canada at 17 to pursue professional tennis in Southern California. Together, they discuss how growth happens through discomfort, why learning to embrace adversity is essential, and how the right environment can unlock a player's full potential.

In this episode, they explore:

✅ The difference between a fixed mindset and a growth mindset
✅ How resilience and adversity shape long-term success
✅ Why discipline and self-efficacy matter more than confidence alone
✅ The role coaches and parents play in creating healthy developmental environments
✅ Why learning to be uncomfortable is critical for growth
✅ How results-focused thinking can limit development
✅ The importance of passion, work ethic, and intrinsic motivation in high performers
✅ What today's players can learn from past generations of competitors

Ryan and Steve also discuss the challenges facing young athletes today, from rankings and ratings to social media pressures, and why helping players detach from outcomes and focus on the process may be one of the most valuable lessons coaches can teach.

Whether you're a player, parent, coach, or sports enthusiast, this episode offers practical insights into building mental toughness, fostering growth, and creating environments where athletes can thrive both on and off the court.

Follow along and join the conversation as we continue exploring the people, pathways, and principles that are truly serving the future.

Connect with The Serving the Future Show

Follow us for clips, behind-the-scenes content, guest highlights, and conversations about tennis, pickleball, padel, athlete development, and the future of racquet sports.

Instagram: @servingthefutureshow
X: @TSTF_Show
TikTok: @servingthefutureshow
Facebook: Serving the Future Show
YouTube: @ServingtheFutureShow

Hosted by Ryan Redondo and Steve Adamson and recorded at the Barnes Tennis Center, home of Youth Tennis San Diego.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review the podcast. Your support helps us reach more players, parents, coaches, and fans across the racquet sports community.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome back or welcome to the Serving the Future show. We are at Youth Tennis San Diego's headquarters, the Barnes Tennis Center, and we are in the Inspire 360 Digital Digital Lab. I am your co-host Ryan Redondo, and I am with Steve Adamson, our director of tennis and founder of the Steve Adamson Tennis Academy. Today, the theme that we're going to talk about today is development and mindset. Right, Steve?

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Absolutely. First of all, uh episode two. Look how far we've come. Yeah, I definitely want to talk about mindset, just how important it is to build athletes and you know what that mindset means to everyone and how it's built. And I think the best way is just to talk a little bit about yourself. And and I feel like mindset really is is a kind of a summing of up the experiences that one has. So can you talk to us a little bit about how your mindset was shaped by your tennis experiences growing up? What are some of the events, experiences that really helped change your mindset or shape it?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Yeah, I think mindset for me, and it really correlates to my whole pathway, you know, in the development phase. And that's something that we're going to talk about as well. But um, there's a great book called Mindset. Carol Deweck from Stanford wrote it, and she focuses on two themes: a fixed mindset and a growth mindset. And when I look back at my story and my journey, I definitely had different mindsets in those two terms. Um, depending on my environment, depending on who coached me, depending on where I was at, my goals. Um, I probably had a fixed and growth mindset at the same time at certain points. And I think you probably need that too. Yeah. So when I think of my pathway, I mean, I started playing tennis when I was in diapers, right? I was born into it. My father was the San Diego, uh the head coach at San Diego State, and I just I lived and died tennis. And so from an early age, that was just everything to me. Um uh to the point I played my first tournament when I was six years old. I lost 0-0 right here in San Diego. I don't know how many points I got. So you can imagine kind of like the the fabric of how I was starting in like competition at six. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

I lost oh and oh, but I was 12. Six years old. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

So I was probably playing a 12-year-old. Yeah. Um, and you know, and so there was this love of the game early on. And I can remember hitting on the wall at San Diego State or when we moved to Cornado at the Lim Meridian Resort, and I just envisioned myself being Michael Chang or a Specker. And I would copy their strokes and I would just go out and play. So there's this early on growth mindset kind of development that I was taking on for myself, right? Yep. And it was really when I started to compete at 10, 11, 12, when I started playing all the SoCal tournaments and all the USTA tournaments where results started to come into play. That's when things changed, you know, and I remember that. It was a lot less of just the love of the game to, oh, I've got to win this tournament to get to this next tournament. And so for the purpose of this show today and this podcast, I think that's what we're gonna talk about. And and and I'd love to use my example because I think that's it's it's just transparent on on what not to do and what to do, yeah. Uh, because I am definitely not uh winning Wimbledon or had anything near there, but I did have you know moments and milestones of success. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

I I mean I think it it's it's different for everyone, and that's the key is is just basically growing and making sure that that this mindset that you're you're you ex take all these opportunities and don't view them as so much as like obstacles, but more just as a challenge, you know, to just be able to go there and and power through. I mean, my whole thing when when I was a kid, I I left Canada at 17 years old to come and play the futures in there, or there was a satellite then in SoCal. Didn't know anybody, flew on a plane to Bakersfield, played at the Rio Bravo Resort. There you go. So I didn't know anybody. I met a few players. Um, the second week was South Elmonte. They uh I don't know if you remember that tennis center there, but I was playing like second round qualies, still 17 years old. I was playing this guy, and in the middle of the match, he's like, if you beat me, I'm gonna kill you, gonna kill you in the parking lot. Just I'm gonna be waiting out there. Oh my god. And the guy was not good, right? The guy was not a good tennis player. I don't know how he won his first round, but I was scared, you know what I mean? And it's like I still had this like dream, like that was my dream to go out there and play pro tennis. And I went through a lot to to try to achieve that, and it's like it just allows you to try to power through, but you can go either way there, you know what I mean? Like that it can be just too much because I was kind of all by myself there, and then the next week I played the Anaheim week three, and I had a really good week. And um, the people that I was traveling with, they had um, you know, they'd lost and left. So it was just me by myself. I'm staying in a hotel, yeah. And then that night there's in the dumpster, there's a dead body, so like didn't get any sleep. Here comes like all the police and everything, and I gotta play the next day, and I'm it's I'm a little shaken, obviously, right? And so I don't know where I'm gonna go after the event. I'm playing my fourth round match. I call my cousin in San Diego to come up and you know, get me basically. And I'm playing, and I'm like, do I want to win this match? Not that I necessarily could have won the match, it's just the fact that it's you know, I don't know where I'm gonna be. You know what I mean? If I win, then my cousin's gonna leave and I'm gonna be stuck there. Yeah. And so it's just these things where I feel like those things really helped shape me. It's like dealing with that adversity. And for sure, I did not have that prior. Yeah, but it certainly helped me going forward. I was certainly not the player afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

So you got to you came to Southern California to play these futures or the satellites. Yeah. At 17, coming from Canada, yeah, probably not all of the resources and competitive environment of Southern California. Right. So you must have had some kind of mindset or something was instilled in you to get to that point to be able to do that, because that's a a feat in its own, right? To be able to do that. So tell me from 12 when you lost 0-0 to a six-year-old, probably to 17 of traveling here. What was your mindset like?

SPEAKER_02 7:05

It was just that I had this desire that I wanted to go play professional tennis and I wanted to play college in California and in Southern California, and that was it. And it's just a weird thing. Like I talk about it all the time, that that was just some of the guy from Canada just playing hockey and basketball and everything to not a huge, obviously, tennis country, yeah, but I wanted to be here. And then, and and that really just shaped it. I I had this desire. I mean, this how I was a guy that didn't want to go to like sleepovers at other people's houses, and I get on a plane at 17 by myself with no one to pick me up. I just wanted to do it, and I think it comes back to that desire, like that you that will to like you want to achieve something, or that's your goal. And I just think that you can't top that. Like, that's what is so important. It kind of drove me, and I end up playing college tennis as we know. But I mean, I'm sure there's moments like that for you that it's just like obviously for everything for you, very driven individual. So I'm sure you've got lots to talk about, and that as far as mindset goes and how tennis shaped that specifically.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah, and I'm super curious, and I I think we can probably have more episodes about different mindsets because we're gonna talk a little bit too about development. How does mindset transform the way you develop, right? And that's external and internal. And so for me, going back to to where I you know my mindset was developed. Um, same thing. I had this passion to be number one. That was a very external goal. I had that fed to me from my dad. You're gonna be number one player in the world. Yeah, but then there was backed up by results. At 11 years old, I was traveling across the country by myself to play a national, or invited by Team USA to do something. So you just start to feel um that, hey, there's something there, right? And so the this this growth mindset that I can do anything or I can I can reach these goals or that milestone starts to develop and at an early age. And so by 13, I was I went to uh Tarb, France to play Les Petits A with Travis Rettenmeyer, got my ass kicked in singles.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

That's the big deal tournament. That's there's no messing around at the bottom.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

But we won, but we won doubles, right? And so it's like, hmm, maybe you're you're the you know you're doing well. Go to Orange Bowl under 14, I get to the semis. So now it's like agents are looking at me. So back to the mindset. I'm I have this growth mindset that I'm gonna continue to get better. I can I can win, I can develop. Um behind that was that that passion and that desire. Beyond that, and that's what I want to know about. Like, and and that's what I want to talk about with development, because if we're developing kids to get to college or to go right to the pro tour, there's something beyond just, oh, yeah, he has a growth mindset or a fixed mindset, right? There's the external factors of coach, parents, but then there's just that internal factor. And that's what I ended up, what I can really say is I had is like I really wanted to suffer. Yeah. I really like I can go out in Paraguay, right, and go three sets, cramp, go to the hospital, and I'll do that over again to get a result. Right. And so that's that's where I I came from and and my experiences of being able to travel. Now that hindered me to an extent as well, because my development stopped at some point. And it wasn't until I went and met John Nelson, really, that he opened my eyes up to a whole nother level of growth mindset and where I was detached from results, but that passion and that desire to get better internally, it was almost a spiritual sense of just self-realization or self-uh, I don't know what you want to call it, where I just wanted that so bad for myself rather than just the result or for somebody else. Um and yeah, that's that's my personal take.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

I I think that just hits it on the head. It's that internal passion. Uh, when you were telling me about the uh story in Paraguay, it brings another one up for me. I think it just sums it up perfectly. Um, another uh San Diego State uh alumni, a great San Diego player, Eric Falk. He was in Mexico struggling for his first ATP point, and the weather was it was insane. It was almost unbearable to just be on the court. Yeah, like the warm-up was a struggle. And uh he goes out there, pulls it out seven, six in the third. I mean, there it wasn't tennis at this point, it was just sheer desire. Yeah, he comes off the court, full body cramp, everything, just one of the most miserable experiences I think you could have, straight to the hospital in Mexico is at Cancun. Oh wow. And uh the funny story about it is I was playing doubles afterwards, and my doubles partner goes, I don't want to go on the court. There's no way, there's no way that's happening to me. Yeah, I'm like, we're playing doubles. There's only like half the court, right? He goes, There's just no way that that's happening to me. I'm not putting my body through that. Yeah, right. And it's just a like a different mindset. He was gonna go through a wall, it didn't matter what was gonna happen to him, and it's just that, and it's hard to that that passion and that desire, that it always kind of shines through. And so, like even so, are you born with that? Can that be that's a great question? I think that somebody in the comments should let us know. I'd love to hear everybody's thoughts about that. Are you born? But can it be shaped though, right? Yeah, can can you know, I think that you had said it kind of a mixed or a fixed mindset at the beginning and then turning into a growth mindset. Yeah, I mean, I think I developed a lot mainly in college as a tennis player under John Nelson and and being able to, he taught me really about that discipline. I felt like athletically I was good, but it just didn't have the discipline and the mindset to like point after point after point.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

And I think that's you know, you're developing, but I always wanted to put in the work, right? Yeah, most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

No, you you brought up discipline. Right. And I love that term. And it wasn't until I started coaching um up at the University of the Pacific where a new word term came to my philosophy, and that was um it's not self-confidence, but self-efficacy, right? So you have discipline, being able to do something over and over again, no matter if you feel good or not, right? Yeah. You're going to go out and you're gonna set up and you're gonna hit a hundred balls down the line. You feel bad or like that, your doubles partner. Yeah, not gonna do it. Yeah, right. That's the fixed mindset, not gonna do it. Or the other side of that fixed mindset, I'm gonna do it no matter what. Yeah, right. 100 balls down the line or side to side until I throw up.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Self-efficacy is is the opposite of self-confidence, where and and this is I I'm not a scientist or whatever. This is just how I understand it. Well, today you're the scientist. Yeah, I have a mic. Um, self-confidence is I'm, you know, you're the ego's there, you're feeling great, you're you're zoning, whatever you want to call it. Self-efficacy is you can step up to the line and you know I can get this first serve in, no matter what. Yeah. Bad weather, fear, dad's gonna kill me, coaches yelling at me. Uh if I lose this point, the team loses. We would put it, whatever scenario scenario, but you know you can step up and hit a first serve in. Yeah. Right? Or you know I'm gonna poach and I can make that volley. That discipline, self-efficacy, that is that that to me is the the sauce to actually developing a player, no matter what age. But if you can do that at a young age, to your point, can it be shaped? Somewhat. I mean, we know these kids, or just Nadal is the perfect example, right? If you I got I've been watching his documentary, he wanted it, but he also had his uncle, yes, who was forcing pressure, yet Nadal said he never would tell his parents how forceful he was because he didn't want him to stop. Yeah, because he knew that was there.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Does that work for every kid though? That's the question. You know, like for for Rafa, hey, he was like he was a competitor, he had that fire inside him. Yeah, if if Uncle Tony's with another kid, I don't know how that works. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

If it works out the same way as it's if it's as successful, we can see like tennis has gone so global, yeah, right, because they they, other people are using tennis as a means out or somewhere, right? You did the same thing. I want to get to Southern California, play collegiate tennis, and that's why college tennis is so strong, right? You have all of these players that are like, I need to get to the United States for this opportunity. They're from God knows where, right? I had I had one of the best, the most talented players I ever coached from Zimbabwe, right? And and uh it just doesn't matter where they're from, they're using tennis as the vehicle. So I think when you have uh individuals that come from not many resources, there's a greater sense of being able to get through. Now, affluent kids, can they get shaped that way? That's the question, right? But I think uh there's education that we as coaches, we as uh uh developers can help educate parents and kids to like at least get to that next level of understanding what it takes because you have to teach a kid to suffer. Yes, right. You have to teach a college player, you're gonna have to if you want to get to Wimbledon, you're gonna have to go into bad areas where there's a dead body in the defensive and be able to have resiliency to go out and play the next match.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yeah. No, it's it's true. I mean, the it it you just have to be able to go there and be uncomfortable, right? And that's the thing is like you're uncomfortable, you have to be okay with it. Tennis is that sport, yeah, right. I mean, you've got like you're playing in heated your conditions, the bad line calls, all this adversity, and you can't give up, right? As soon as you give up, it's over, right? That's the big John Nelson's thing. Just break his will, break his will. Yeah, there's everybody has a breaking point, just wait for that breaking point.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Rice Krispies, snap crackle pop.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

That's his yeah, so and that's the thing. And so you're just again, you're just trying to train that is how long you can go and and how, but it comes back to how bad do you want it, right? That's the thing. Like the coach Nelson always would tell us that story where hey, like it is how bad you want it. You go out there and you work all this time for to earn this, you know, or a radio, or I guess now it'd be like a phone, you know, you pay all the money, you work all those hours, somebody comes to try to take it from you, there's gonna be a lot of resistance because it just meant a lot to you. But if somebody just gave you a phone and you didn't really care, yeah, they're just gonna take it and there's there's just that you don't have what is definitely vested into that. So I think that just comes into the play. And I I think there's so much to talk about is is how these kids, whether affluent or not, they somehow there's that desire in there and how willing how far you're willing to go.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Yeah, yeah. Um, something that comes to mind when when you were saying this is environment as well. So we're talking about uh mindset, you know, what's what's the natural personality of the individual, right? Yeah, and can you shape that, can you change that? That's that's a sports performance uh uh job, right? And a coach's job, um, parents' job. So you have the mindset, you have the discipline, which all equates to what kind of environment is suitable for that personality, right? Because you can have very soft individuals still succeed. Right? I have we all have kids that you're like, wow, there's a lot of talent there, but how do we get this individual who's uh intrinsically soft to be a monster on the court? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

It's true. I I remember um being at the coach's conference in New York, and uh Ivan Lendell came in and we were allowed to ask him one question, and I said, Hey, are you wanting to work with a junior work ethic or talent? And he's like, Don't even ask me that question. He's I don't want talent, I don't care about talent, only care about work ethic. Yeah, I just want them to just want to uh because I can work with that. Yeah, but talent's tough. So I again I think it comes back to just how much work you wanting to put in and can you take that person with talent and then like you were saying, make them a worker. And so it's hard to do it the other way around, right? It's hard to make somebody that's a real worker and doesn't have the talent, it's hard to develop that. But again, then comes that mindset, confidence starts to happen, you know, and you just you feel like you belong there, and then you know, crazy things happen. And again, I think it just comes in from that day in, that consistency of putting in the work day in and day out, yeah, and comes back to your point of what environment works for you? What environment are you gonna thrive in and succeed? And that's it. Is it a a place where you're one-on-one, or is it somewhere where you've got a whole bunch of people pushing you where a coach is on you all the time, or do you not need a coach on you? Yeah, and I think that's just the the beauty of of coaching in general, right? The really good coaches can reach a multitude of kids, right? Different personalities can't be the same generic ABC strategy to reach them. You some need nurturing, some need more firmness, yeah, right. And the goal is to get them to the to the end the same way, right? But you know, it it it really is it's an art, I think.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yeah, yeah. Gosh, it's it's interesting too, because in in today's day, you know, we played many years ago where you can just be at the club all day, right? And we it was a lot more under our control of how hard we went. Yes. Where we weren't uh force feeding it. We were you know, we didn't I mean I had a I had a a father that pushed me pretty hard, but a lot of the hours I practiced was on my own. Right. And back in the 70s and 80s, parents just sent the kids away to go and practice and play, and the coaches had a huge influence. still have a huge influence but things seem to be so much more programmed yes and and that's the I think that's the art now is how do you how do you help program but beyond just results how are you helping program healthy kids healthy people in college even after college how healthy are individuals so that they can continue to succeed in life you know and um I don't know I mean there's so many different ways we can get there but yeah it's it's to your point it's basically that these kids they need to be enjoying the process of it so I feel like now it has become a little bit more like you said programmed.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

I felt like when I played I was just like enjoying it. Yeah and I was getting better but I didn't really know that. Yeah I was just working like the running down balls and competing against people like I just love to compete. And now I think it's it's become a little bit more of like you need to do this from this time and this from this time. And we miss a little bit about just like going out and playing and if you're doing certain drills and with the right people and you're engaged you you're gonna have a blast but yet you're you're really improving yeah detached right you're detached from having to do X, Y, and Z and you're just gonna go out and be extremely disciplined.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

You're gonna suffer because of that passion, that love for it and detachment I just yeah I feel like I did my best when I was super detached from the result but obsessed with the feeling the experience how disciplined there was this edge that I wanted to cross over and we can get players let's not call them just kids because we have we look out at the wildcard tournament we had out here and you can just sense when somebody is fearful. Yeah you can just sense by watching their body language and how I think our jobs are how can we create that detachment where people are out there taking the risk to be their their best you know I I think you just that was perfect.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

I think detaching yourself from the result that's easy to say right very difficult to do. And when you can do that good things can happen because I feel like so many kids are just all everybody is so worked up about the result whether it be from their parents and even if they say their parents don't put pressure on them it's still it's all about the result.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

There's just so much fear everybody's playing in fear and you know you're afraid you know so I had a sorry interrupt but I was teaching a young kid and he went into his first yellow ball tournament he did really well he either won it or got to the finals. Yeah and I asked him how did it go and he immediately brought up his new UTR and that triggered me to the point where uh oh now I'm it's a whole different set of challenges to just coach the kid yeah because his he was already result oriented on something he shouldn't be trying to control. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

And that's the thing is the teaching these kids is is to only worry about what you can control. And again like that it's easier said than done as if you go and look even for me looking back for my matches it's just something that I could have done a lot better.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah right well I think it takes it takes a great going back to the environment who is in the player and the kid's corner. Yeah that's the the biggest thing because if you can have very educated or understanding and aware parents that can support that environment that will allow the coach to be able to help shape and develop some of those those qualities that maybe are not inherent to that kid. Yes. Learning how to suffer learning how to you know I was I think I told you earlier about I was on a Zoom call I haven't spoken to this individual in 20 years. I used to coach him and now he's a successful individual in in New York City making lots of money and I immediately went back to he was in the pouring rain and I fed him side to side a full basket and he just wanted that experience. That says something wanted that I wanted that for him because I loved he was going to that edge he's still a very successful individual and so I think the what I I can't wait to just continue to delve into topics and bring in guests on that will help us expose like just how to cross that line how to get to your edge be comfortable at your edge love being there so that edge can expand.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Yes and I think another part is just that dealing with the adversity I feel like we even more now we run away from the adversity. Nobody wants to face it head on I feel like before there was just it was a little bit more of a norm to to face that adversity and now what kind of adversity what do you mean I mean just like little things like if you're um you go there and you have a bad loss right and what's gonna happen all the kids around are going to be like oh my gosh you lost to that person you thought and the kids have a difficult time dealing with that. It's not like it was ever easy yeah right but it's just you have to deal with that I don't think running away from it or the you know it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen in life it's just all types of of obstacles or people that once you start you know reaching some success people will bring you down in the pros it's obviously the social media and the and the you know you're getting these death threats and you're terrible and you know we love Ryan Segerman he posts those on all the you know you lose a match and that you have to deal with that and I know like for the pros now it's a huge part their mental health dealing with just all the comments they get on social media. Yeah um but it's tough. I mean you have to be able to just kind of compartmentalize those things and like it's not easy but adversity is huge. I think dealing being able to to deal with that and be able to still have the your eyes kind of on the future and on the finish line that really helps people because if you can if you're if some person calling you some bad names or you know questioning your ability is going to put you down a notch and you know and it really upset then it's gonna be a lot harder for you to get out of there and yeah and come back and play the next day or the next week or yeah it's I think it's it's an interesting thing where I think getting comfortable with being in these situations, you know, like five all in the third or you've just you were you up five one now it's five all yeah you know are you okay with I'm gonna be my breathing's the heart rate's at like 180 you know they are am I gonna be going crazy because I've squandered past I can't control that right yeah I can only control what's happening right now and how I deal with it. So I'm excited to go and and see from our guests and how they deal with some of these things and yeah I think it it's gonna be uh some good shows.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Yeah serving the future there you go no pun intended um well that was awesome um yeah I think the call to action that I'd like to end this episode with is for coaches for providers to start thinking about the environments that they're setting up how healthy can you make them and healthy meaning how bring being able to bring somebody to their edge right and and being able to instill that belief that they can come back the next day. Yeah right with adversity it's gonna be really hard today if you have a coach that can be really hard on you and either treat you really well or love you right you've got somebody good and if your parents can also be a part of that um I think the call to action is coaches look at your environment what are you creating parents educate yourself find the right people and the right people for your kids and that you're putting them in the right um places and I think it's for us too you and I and our team to continue to evolve to ensure that we're constantly creating those environments and serving the future that's what we do serve the future yeah it's it's again I think these uh these guests will be able to give us some more knowledge about that and and an insight onto what they have dealt with all over these years. So yeah gonna be good. All right well stay tuned for the next episode coming out soon and Steve thank you that was that was really fun pleasure